With transcript of audio tape recording found in a pawn-shop tape recorder

FD-302 (Rev. 3-8-77)

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FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

- 1 - Date of transcription 3/29/83

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[REDACTED] turned over to Special Agent [REDACTED] a cassette tape recording of a male who identified himself as [REDACTED]

[REDACTED] obtained the cassette from a source who purchased a cassette recorder from a local pawn shop on [REDACTED]. The cassette was found in the recorder.

The following statement was found in the tape:

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[blank / content not visible]

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Investigation on 3/15/83 at Billings, Montana File #[REDACTED] by SA [REDACTED] /mjp Date dictated 3/15/83

This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency.

DB Cooper-19708

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SEARCHED INDEXED SERIALIZED FILED APR 2 4 1983

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164A-81-880)

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"communication because I have found it to be very safe and efficient. I am making three tapes at once. One for you. One for me and one for my lawyer. The reason for this tape is to see if I can expedite our negotiations on what we discussed at the Billings airport. At this point, [REDACTED] I would like to state that I will review this tape and I may edit part of it, parts of it, so if you find some blank spots, you will know why. First I will tell you what I want in this business trans- action, then I'll explain why I think it is reasonable. What I want is for the ATA to make a five year 1.5 million dollar interest free loan to [REDACTED] [REDACTED] which is a company that I am just starting and, uh, I believe that you'd be able to utilize me in other parts after this. I'll explain that later. Anyhow, at the end of five years, you can have your 1.5 million dollars back. This loan will cover my telling you how I would do exactly what I have told you I can and for the period of five years, you will have the guarantee of my son, plus my security form of work on a way to prevent what I described from happening. The 1.5 million will only cover this particular problem. I hope you would see fit to use my security form on other problems and if so, they would be handled on an individual basis. The reason I mention this, is the big mistake you made in underestimating me at the Billings airport. I want you to know that I knew what I was doing and also I knew just how big a fish was in the net. I am sure you know that I had you in my net. By the way, if your recording of our conversation didn't turn out, I will let you listen to mine. It came out great. Anyhow, at that point, I could have taken you down very easy and if the airlines would pay one and a half million for a plane load of people, what would they pay for you. Do you get my point? I had you and your men covered before we started talking. If you have any doubts, I'll give you a coupla things

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here that might help ya. When we were setting down in the chair in the lobby down there by your ticket counter, a guy in the wine-colored shirt that walked in front of us while we were talking, turned around and went back towards the restau- rant. That was my man. The fellow that uh, your locals man in charge of security, and I don't remember his name, the fellow that he was watching, the guy with the beard that was taking all of those pictures around the airport, he was one of my men. I had other men there too covering but I'm not going to go into all that. I'm quite sure you get the drift of it. (Pause) I set you up for two reasons, [REDACTED] First, I wanted to get your attention. I wanted you to give some credance to what I was sayin. I want you to know I can do what I say I can do. That is the second reason I want you to know I can do what I say I can do, so if I tell you I know how to hijack a planeload of people and walk away with one and a half million dollars, in untraceable, and underline untraceable, untrace- able money, believe me I can do just that. I believe that I can, uh, sum up your and my options here pretty easy. Uh, let me first explain your options...as I see them. And, if I haven't covered them all, I'm sure you'll let me know if you have any others. First one would probably be the legal approach, uh, whatever you might try to do along those lines uh, I talked to the Federal people before I talked to you and I know that uh, what I'm offering you is on legal grounds. And if you approach me from the legal direction, all you gonna do is get publicity on this and I don't think you want that, and I don't see any need in it either. So, I think we can eliminate the legal approach. The second one is uh the possibility of just ignoring me and I'll go away, uh, I just, I don't need to explain that one uh I think that you know that that's not really a viable option and I'm sure you've already thought of that one. The third one and I hate to have to cover this one, but that's the way it's done nowadays, uh, is eliminate me. Now that ain't gonna work either. You know I'm

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[REDACTED]

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not so dumb but what I've protected myself, I think you learned that. I've got myself protected pretty well against that possibility and if you should succeed, it'd be worse than dealing with me because uh, the way I've got it laid out, it'll all come out then. And the fourth one, and I believe this is your last option, is to deal with me. Now we got to reach a reasonable basis, uh, to handle this and uh, to uh, help reach that reasonable base, I will explain some of my options, now. First thing is, I want you to know that I know the value of what I have. I uh, might even be leaving quite a bit of money laying on the table on this deal, but that's don't make any difference to me. If I am, I don't want to even know about it. I know it's worth what I'm askin'. I know this much also. That's it's worth a helluva lot more on the international market. Then if somebody should happen to try this, they wouldn't be asking for a loan to start a security firm. They'd be asking for enough money probably to set up an army. So, uh, I'd rather not discuss this any further because that's, uh, an option I don't even want to think about. Uh, I can go to your insurance company and I can explain to them what I can do and I quite sure they'll believe me. If they'll believe me, uh, I would think your insurance rate will go up. Uh, don't want that option either. I uh, would hate to think of somebody comin' out with a how-to book on something like this cuz uh, now I'd rather not see it happen. Um, another thing is uh, like I told you, uh, as long as I have no contract I have no obligations and I can sit around and tell anybody about this and uh, we both know what the end result of that would be so there's no sense of me going into detail there. I think that the point we've reached right now, [REDACTED] is, uh, if you're a chess player, this is what we call checkmate. Now, uh, I think the best thing to do is, uh, Monday I'll go to my attorney and I'll have him draw up a contract on the loan and the exchange of

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the information and uh, as far as the exchange of information, we discussed this kind of and I don't think we came up with anything there but I'll tell you the way I see it as being is, uh, I will verbally, myself, personally, explain the procedure to the board of directors of the ATA and uh, I will see that that's in the contract. I, uh, also, will have in the contract, that this explanation will only be made after the loan is made and can't be recalled. Now, uh, there was another point I wanted to cover, [REDACTED] and that was the fact that you said to me this had been tried before and uh, I don't think I totally explained that aspect of it to your satifaction when we were at the airport. Now, let me explain some- thing to ya here, uh, this absolutely has not been tried before, the way I'm talking about doin' it, because if it had of, I, guarantee you, you could have not suppressed this from the news media and when I explain this to the board of directors, I believe that you will readily agree that what I'm saying is true. Uh, now I want to explain to you, [REDACTED] the part where I said at the beginning of this that I might edit part of it out. I don't uh, (inaudible) (U) motive in this and this is not to embarrass you at all. I think you made a big mistake at the airport when you were sitting there talking to me. I think you underestimated me considerably. Uh, if you want to delete that part and this part from this tape, then let me know that you've done that, I will not bring up that aspect at all before the board of directors. I'm not out to embarrass anybody. I just wanted you to understand I can do what I can say I can do and there is a damm chance I'll do just exactly that. So, let's not have any flim flam here or y trying to blame you with footwork or coercion, meaning you are scaring me, or whatever you think, I don't intimidate. I just want to get this deal consumated so I can go on to the rest of my life. Now, uh, I will put the contract before

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you. I will allow a period of time for your legal staff to look over, if there's some changes in it that you want, feel free to come back and talk about it. If it's a change I can live with, I'll be more than glad to. I want this to be fair as much as possible both ways but I'll also going to protect myself. I believe that just about covers it, [REDACTED] and I will try to put this tape on one of your planes headed back to you so you'll have it uh, maybe with a chance to review it before Monday and uh, I would appreciate it, uh, when you've reviewed it and made your decision, uh, give me a call. We can talk. Thank you. This is [REDACTED]

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