Interview of Karl Payne Fleming, Newsweek, re contact with man claiming to be D.B. Cooper

FD-302 (REV. 11-27-70)

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Date of transcription 4/28/72

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KARL PAYNE FLEMING, Contributing Editor, Newsweek Magazine, 444 Madison Avenue, New York, New York, was con- tacted at Newsweek Magazine. FLEMING stated he was willing to be interviewed only in presence of [REDACTED] [REDACTED] He was advised of Identities of THOMAS F. DRUMM and JEREMIAH J. SMITH as Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). He was advised that an inves- tigation was being conducted to attempt to identify the in- dividual responsible for the hijacking of a Northwest Airlines Flight on November 24, 1971, and his subsequent receipt of $200,000 from that airline. FLEMING was furnished a form entitled Interrogation; Advice of Rights, which he [REDACTED] [REDACTED] read. FLEMING stated he understood his rights and would consult with his attorney whenever he wished to clarify answers to any questions. He advised he had a personal attor- ney, [REDACTED] of Atlanta also representing him.

FLEMING advised that he was interested in the hijacking incident and had placed advertisements in the San Francisco Chronicle, Portland Oregonian, and Seattle Times, indicating he represented a national magazine and asking that "D. B. COOPER" contact him listing his, FLEMING's home tele- phone number. In early February, FLEMING received a telephone call at his home and requested caller recontact him the follow- ing evening so that he could set up arrangements for a secure telephone call. This individual then called the following evening furnished his name as [REDACTED] and based on this telephone call, FLEMING agreed to meet [REDACTED] at a motel at the Seattle Airport, name unrecalled, on or about February 15, 1972. [REDACTED] contacted FLEMING at this motel; and shortly thereafter, another individual knocked on the side door of the motel room and entered through this sliding patio-type door. He was introduced as the hijacker, D. B. COOPER. At this ini- tial meeting, [REDACTED] had requested the sum of [REDACTED] [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] This was to be in three payments of [REDACTED] The initial payment was to be made when FLEMING [REDACTED] and the third [REDACTED] payment [REDACTED]

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Interviewed on 4/25/72 at New York, New York File # NY 164-627 SE 164-81 - [REDACTED] by SA THOMAS F. DRUMM SA JEREMIAH J. SMITH JJS:pal/bgv Date dictated 4/28/72

This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it and its contents are not to be distributed outside your agency.

DB COOPER-49777

Copy

NY 164-627 SE 164-81

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FLEMING advised that Newsweek Magazine was not agreeable to paying this sum of money. FLEMING obtained [REDACTED] from his partner, MAX PALEVSKY, and this was the final price agreed on by [REDACTED] COOPER [REDACTED]

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[REDACTED] FLEMING requested that PALEVSKY, who recently had a severe heart attack and operation, not be contacted due to his poor health and in view of the fact PALEVSKY was not aware of the full details concerning FLEMING's meeting with COOPER [REDACTED]

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COOPER was present on February 20, 1972, at the Edgewater Inn, Seattle, when FLEMING turned over the [REDACTED] in cash consisting of an unknown amount of bills in 20, 50 and 100 dollar denominations. FLEMING obtained a [REDACTED] from [REDACTED] for this sum of money, which stipulated an agreement that it would be put in a trust fund by COOPER [REDACTED] to use as funds for legal defense in the event COOPER was charged with the crime. FLEMING stated that during the course of contacts with [REDACTED] he learned that the true name of [REDACTED] and COOPER became extremely agitated and criticized [REDACTED] for letting his true name become known. FLEMING advised that all his contacts with the individual he knew as D. B. COOPER were through [REDACTED] He advised that he interviewed COOPER on February 22 and 23, 1972, and on the second date, used [REDACTED]

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COOPER. He did not allow these two individuals to have direct contact with COOPER [REDACTED] [REDACTED] with COOPER. They were not aware of the identity of [REDACTED] other than by his nickname, [REDACTED] He identified a photograph of [REDACTED] furnished by the Seattle Office, as identical to the individual named [REDACTED] he had dealt with initially using alias [REDACTED] and to whom he paid the [REDACTED] He identified the photograph of the individual wearing a black and white knit cap and the photograph of an individual wearing what appeared to be a wig, as the same individual he interviewed, identifying himself as D. B. COOPER.

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DB COOPER-49778

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NY 164-627 SE 164-81

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FLEMING was not one of the individuals present when wig was purchased. He does not recall seeing COOPER without a hat or cap whenever he met him. COOPER described himself as a devout Catholic who had been married to the same woman for 25 years. COOPER alleged he owned a boat, a camper and three automobiles. Further description not known. COOPER indicated he had two children, a married daughter, and a son in college. COOPER indicated he had worked for Boeing Aircraft Company, Seattle, for 14 years and had been discharged and replaced by a man 15 years younger than himself, approximately two years ago when there was a general lay off at Boeing. COOPER indicated he formerly lived next door to an Episcopal minister. FLEMING described COOPER as a white male, almost 50 years old, about 5' 9" to 5' 10" tall, 160 to 175 pounds, large ears, thin lips, sharp nose, with balding dark brown hair, right handed, and a heavy smoker of filtered-type cigarettes. "COOPER has some sort of blue tattoo, further description not noticed, on the inside of his lower left forearm, near his shirt cuff. COOPER has a two- inch round depression on left side of his forehead and has slightly prominent veins in the center of his forehead, which are somewhat obvious in the photograph of COOPER taken on the street. COOPER has two front upper teeth which have gold caps on approximately one quarter of them. He concealed these caps with makeup prior to being photographed on February 23, 1972, by [REDACTED] FLEMING advised that he was furnished a Xerox copy of three twenty dollar bills and the photograph of COOPER on the street. [REDACTED] [REDACTED] delivered these items to the New York Office on April 21, 1972, based on instructions from [REDACTED] FLEMING's personal attorney, to furnish all information to the FBI. [REDACTED] had previously furnished a [REDACTED] FLEMING's [REDACTED] COOPER to the Department of Justice, along with the [REDACTED] COOPER in the black and white cap which [REDACTED] interview on the beach. This [REDACTED]

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[REDACTED] except for three twenty dollar bills he kept for comparison with any published list. FLEMING advised that [REDACTED] at the Edgewater Inn Motel,

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DB COOPER-49779

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b6 b7c

NY 164-627 SE 164-81

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exhibited three twenty dollar bills to FLEMING, and FLEMING is 98% positive that the serial numbers of those three bills are identical with the Xerox copy of three bills he received from [REDACTED] FLEMING did not record the serial numbers of the three bills exhibited to him by [REDACTED] told FLEMING that he met COOPER when [REDACTED] to a group of Boeing employees. COOPER asked [REDACTED] how he could invest sufficient money to obtain a return of ten to twelve thousand dollars a year. [REDACTED] visited COOPER at his home and observed two skydiving awards on a mantle place at COOPER's home. COOPER is allegedly unemployed and existing on interest and dividends from other investments he has made in the past. FLEMING advised that he was hopeful that COOPER would surrender himself and the ransom money. FLEMING has had no contact with COOPER since February 23, 1972, and some- time several weeks ago, FLEMING called [REDACTED] advising [REDACTED] he wished to talk to COOPER. [REDACTED] subsequently advised FLEMING that COOPER has refused to contact FLEMING until [REDACTED] FLEMING advised that Newsweek will not furnish [REDACTED] FLEMING's contact with COOPER. FLEMING advised that he had contacted

until COOPER is apprehended and convicted.

FLEMING advised that he will recontact his personal attorney, [REDACTED] to determine if [REDACTED] will agree to FLEMING furnishing [REDACTED] [REDACTED] COOPER and [REDACTED] for [REDACTED] signed by [REDACTED] FLEMING states he believed he talked to the actual hijacker, who is revealing his background and is willing to confess to this incident because of his Catholic upbringing. FLEMING stated that based on his eleven years experience as a reporter, he is more than 90% convinced that the individual he contacted was the hijacker.

FLEMING advised that in addition to being a Contri- buting Editor for Newsweek Magazine, he has formed a partner- ship in a firm under the name Platypus Publications, Incor- porated with MAX PALEVSKY. This firm intends to publish a weekly newspaper in the near future in the Los Angeles area. He advised that PALEVSKY also has other business interests.

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DB COOPER-49780

NY 164-627 SE 164-81

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The following description of KARL PAYNE FLEMING was obtained during observation and interview:

Sex Male Race White Date of Birth August 30, 1927 Eyes Brown Hair Graying Height 6' 1" Weight 175 pounds

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FLEMING made available a photograph of himself at the conclusion of the interview. He advised that he planned to return to his residence at 12231 1/2 Gorham Avenue, Los Angeles, California, on February 26, 1972.

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FLEMING requested that any further contacts with him be through his [REDACTED] telephone [REDACTED] He advised that his personal attorney is [REDACTED] currently in Washington, D. C., and he did not wish to be interviewed further without either [REDACTED] was present. He stated his reason for desiring an [REDACTED] was his belief that he [REDACTED] who provided him with information leading in this case, [REDACTED] the alleged hijacker, D. B. COOPER. He to [REDACTED] wanted to [REDACTED] if the details he obtained were true as he had invested considerable time in [REDACTED]

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DB COOPER-49781